Show HN: Sim – Apache-2.0 n8n alternative

📝 Discussion Summary (Click to expand)

The discussion covers three main areas regarding workflow automation tools, comparing and contrasting n8n with its alternatives (like Sim.ai, Node-RED, and LangGraph).

Here are the three most prevalent themes:

1. Licensing and Business Model Concerns

Users express skepticism or strong opinions regarding the open-source licensing models of n8n and similar tools that are pivoting toward commercial monetization, fearing vendor lock-in or changes in core availability.

Supporting Quote: Regarding n8n's license: > "n8n uses a 'Sustainable Use License'—source available, but not OSI-approved open source. This means you can only use it for internal business purposes or non-commercial use." (waleedlatif1)
Supporting Quote: Expressing general caution about commercialization: > "Open Sourced until we get rug pulled.." (vegasbrianc)

2. Technical Capabilities for Complex State Management (Loops and Memory)

A significant part of the technical conversation revolves around how these tools handle complex, stateful tasks, specifically iterated processes like loops, and maintaining memory across executions.

Supporting Quote: A complex use case highlighting the need for state persistence: > "I want to check which items did I encounter before <- that's the key bit" (smarx007)
Supporting Quote: Explaining n8n's approach to iteration: > "for loops we use two sentinel nodes with a backwards edge, and before each iteration, we check the condition and update loop variables." (waleedlatif1)

3. Comparison to Established Workflow Tools (Node-RED and LangGraph)

Commenters frequently benchmark the discussed tools (especially Sim.ai) against established competitors, looking for differentiation in focus (AI/Agentic vs. general automation) and architectural choices (e.g., custom engines vs. leveraging LangGraph).

Supporting Quote: Highlighting the difference in focus between Sim and Node-RED: > "Node-RED is great for IoT/edge/data flows. Sim is built specifically for AI agents—native LLM support, tool-use control, structured outputs, token-level observability, etc." (waleedlatif1)
Supporting Quote: User preference for established agent infrastructure: > "I’m interested in LangGraph because it seems the closest to an industry standard - every use case seems to be addressed with a tutorial (both first and third party) and there’s an ecosystem of already available graphs/agents." (solarkraft)

🚀 Project Ideas

Workflow Visualization Debugger (WVD)

Summary

A desktop tool designed to analyze and debug complex, potentially looping, visual workflow definitions (like n8n or Sim).
Solves the pain point of difficulty in understanding and tracing execution paths, especially for nested loops, by providing slow, annotated visualization playback.

Details

Key	Value
Target Audience	Developers, power users of visual workflow tools (n8n, Sim, Node-RED) struggling with complexity.
Core Feature	Load workflow JSON/YAML definitions and dynamically step through execution paths, slowing down the rendering of GIFs/Visuals provided in documentation or local debugging sessions.
Tech Stack	Electron/Tauri (for cross-platform desktop app), Web technologies (React/Vue) to render the imported SVG/Canvas visualization from the workflow definition.
Difficulty	Medium

Notes

Users explicitly mentioned that existing README GIFs were "a little too fast, it's hard to tell what exactly is happening," and workflow loop debugging is a known struggle point. This tool would cater directly to visual tracing needs.
Highly practical utility for anyone building complex, stateful workflows where execution logic (like loop conditions) is critical to verify before deployment.

Deterministic State Snapshot Utility for Orchestration Tools

Summary

A library or simple self-hosted service that provides standardized, persistent, yet lightweight historical data storage, specifically targeting the 'track what items I've seen before' loop requirement.
Solves the pain point of required boilerplate code (separate tables, CSV management, token storage) needed to implement tracking logic within orchestration tools.

Details

Key	Value
Target Audience	Users building complex, stateful workflows requiring item tracking, deduplication, or change detection across runs (e.g., data processing, RSS updates).
Core Feature	An API/SDK allowing a workflow block to query/update item history based on a unique key, returning metadata like `first_seen`, `last_seen`, and `has_changed`.
Tech Stack	Python/Go backend, SQLite or a simple key-value store like Redis/RocksDB for high-speed, localized persistence. Expose a simple REST/gRPC API compatible with generic "Code Blocks" in workflow tools.
Difficulty	Medium

Notes

This directly addresses the complex data tracking requirement mentioned by smarx007 (checking items encountered before, detecting updates/deletions), suggesting that while tools can do it, it requires significant, non-workflow-native boilerplate.
It would be positioned as the "better, standardized way" to handle memory outside of proprietary blocks, appealing to users nostalgic for the simplicity of tools like Yahoo Pipes.

Open-Source Workflow Protocol Gateway (OSWP-Gateway)

Summary

A standardized, self-hosted gateway service that implements a simplified version of the Agent Protocol (MCP) to allow interoperability between proprietary workflow engines (like Sim) and open-source agent frameworks (like Aegra reimplementations).
Solves the user concern about platform lock-in (Elastic/Redis analogy) and the desire for agent ecosystems to communicate seamlessly.

Details

Key	Value
Target Audience	Developers invested in LangGraph/Agent Protocol but hesitant about proprietary server implementations (LangGraph CLI) or those wanting to call proprietary workflow capabilities as simple remote tools.
Core Feature	Acts as a flexible bridge: translates incoming requests conforming to a simplified Agent Protocol subset into calls consumable by Sim's API/MCP server (or other workflow tools) and streams the response back in protocol format.
Tech Stack	Rust or TypeScript (Node.js) for performance and handling streams/concurrency, focused heavily on protocol enforcement and serialization/deserialization.
Difficulty	High

Notes

Addresses the high-level architectural concern raised by solarkraft regarding ecosystem lock-in and making proprietary workflows interact with open standards (LangGraph's Agent Protocol).
Provides a clear path for self-hosters to integrate advanced orchestration capabilities (Sim's deterministic engine) into their existing agent architectures without full dependency switching, appeasing users worried about "gentle but firm lock-in vibes."