IdeaWell

Project ideas from Hacker News discussions.

Why medieval city-builder video games are historically inaccurate (2020)

Original Article

Hacker News Discussion

📝 Discussion Summary (Click to expand)

Here are the four most prevalent themes from the Hacker News discussion:

1. Historical Inaccuracies Driven by Game Design & Fun Users acknowledge that historical realism is often sacrificed for enjoyable gameplay, as many accurate details are mundane or frustrating. The consensus is that players prefer agency and progress over the harsh realities of subsistence living.

  • "The truth feels like a glitch because it breaks our immersion. We care more about the feeling of the past than the data." — dfajgljsldkjag
  • "A realistic shooter would be much harder, and having to limp slowly after taking a stray bullet in the leg would suck." — nine_k
  • "Real history was full of system failures like floods and unfair taxes that prevented any real progress. We code these simulations to give players a sense of progression that the actual people never had." — dfajgljsldkjag

2. Misconceptions Regarding Medieval Aesthetics There is a strong pushback against the "drab, brown" visual stereotype of the Middle Ages. Users argue that vibrant colors were available and widely used, relying on art and historical evidence rather than modern pop culture tropes.

  • "Earthly colored clothing was not normal... humans like colors and dying clothing is a tiny part of what is needed to make a garment so anyone allowed to would do it." — bluGill
  • "There’s a whole lot of pictorial evidence from medieval times and it typically shows quite a bit of fancy colored clothing." — zozbot234
  • "The natural wood colour was later thing and mostly coming off when the paint had flaked away and the tapestries rotted. Partly also done with puritanism." — Ekaros

3. The Immense Labor of Medieval Subsistence Discussion highlights the massive, often invisible labor required for basic survival—specifically farming and textile production—contrasting it with the simplified systems found in games like Banished or Age of Empires.

  • "We know that the ratio of farmers to non-farmers in the medieval period was something like 29:1. But so little thought is given to just the sheer amount of work and space it took to fill mouths and clothe bodies." — legitster
  • "women's work is mostly using a drop spindle - it took every woman in the village 10-12 hours a day, every day, working a drop spinele to get enough thread for their clothing." — bluGill
  • "70% of producing clothes is spinning, 20% is weaving, and 10% is sewing." — eapressoandcats

4. The Economics of Innovation and Technology Users debate why certain technologies (like the spinning wheel or steam engine) weren't adopted earlier. The discussion centers on economic incentives—specifically that demand and existing labor costs (like slavery) were the primary drivers for invention, rather than pure capability.

  • "You can invent it, but if there is no economics to drive its adoption it won't spread. Medieval thread production and thread consumption was roughly balanced so there was no great economic incentive to engineer it." — bsder
  • "The Romans (their blacksmith god was disabled) also didn't value technology as a society like England did... they mostly didn't try to develop technology (except as it related to winning wars)." — bluGill
  • "England developed steam engines in a world where slaves didn't exist." — bluGill

🚀 Project Ideas

Medieval Farming Simulator

Summary

  • [A city builder where you manage the actual labor of subsistence farming, not just placing buildings. The core problem is that games like Banished show survival, but omit the true scale of pre-modern agriculture: needing 30 farmers to feed 31 people, crop rotation, and the constant labor of threads.]
  • [Core value proposition: A deeply researched, non-power-fantasy simulator that models the slow, grinding, resource-intensive nature of medieval life without being tedious, using narrative and tension from external threats (raids, lords) to drive gameplay, not just expansion.]

Details

Key Value
Target Audience Fans of hardcore survival city builders (Banished, Frostpunk) and historically curious gamers who find modern city builders too easy or unrealistic.
Core Feature "Thread Labor" System: Spinning, weaving, and tailoring is a primary economic activity requiring active player management and labor allocation, consuming significant time and resources.
Tech Stack Unity (for curved roads/free-form building) or Godot; focus on 2D/isometric simulation (like Ostriv).
Difficulty Medium
Monetization Revenue-ready: Premium indie game ($15-25). DLC could add different historical regions/periods (e.g., 14th C. Europe, Feudal Japan).

Notes

  • [As commented by users like legitster ("We know that the ratio of farmers to non-farmers... was something like 29:1. But so little thought is given to just the sheer amount of work...") and bluGill ("women's work is mostly using a drop spindle - it took every woman in the village 10-12 hours a day...").]
  • [The game solves the "boring" problem by introducing external threats (lords taking surplus, sickness, raids) rather than making the farming itself fun; the fun comes from the struggle to survive and optimize. It has high potential for discussion on HN regarding historical accuracy vs. gameplay loops.]

Non-Grid RTS: Manor Lords Toolkit

Summary

  • [A modular toolkit/modding framework that expands gridless city builders (like Manor Lords) to support dynamic systems currently missing: realistic taxation loops, forced labor drafts, and migration based on local lord reputation. Most games lack the political/economic friction of the era.]
  • [Core value proposition: Allows players and modders to inject the "real" economic drain mentioned in the discussion—the skimming of surpluses by lords and church—turning a simple builder into a socio-political simulation where growth is dangerous because it attracts attention.]

Details

Key Value
Target Audience Modders and hardcore players of Manor Lords, Ostriv, and Foundation.
Core Feature "Feudal Overhead" Scripting API: A plug-and-play module that calculates taxes, conscripts units based on population, and simulates external political pressure that scales with village size.
Tech Stack C# (Unity) or C++ (Unreal) plugin for existing engines; standalone tool for exporting map data.
Difficulty Medium
Monetization Revenue-ready: Sell as a premium modding asset ($10-20) or a standalone "director's cut" engine overhaul for existing games.

Notes

  • [Directly addresses the HN sentiment expressed by Ekaros ("The natural wood colour was later thing... mostly coming off when the paint had flaked away") and dfajgljsldkjag ("We have a mental model of the Middle Ages that is wrong but we still demand that products match our expectations").]
  • [Allows for deeper storytelling without changing the visual fidelity. HN would appreciate the technical deep-dive into simulating political economy rather than just resource chains.]

Historical Realism Game Engine: "The Acoup" Framework

Summary

  • [A dedicated engine or comprehensive mod framework for games (CK3, RimWorld, etc.) that simulates the "peasant household" dynamics described by historian Bret Devereaux (linked in the discussion). It models specific labor loops, gender-division of labor, and resource bottlenecks (like thread vs. weaving) that are abstracted away in standard games.]
  • [Core value proposition: Bridges the gap between academic historical simulation and playability. It provides a "Realistic" difficulty mode that forces players to deal with the actual statistical realities of pre-modern life, making survival a genuine puzzle rather than a timer.]

Details

Key Value
Target Audience Hardcore historical simulation enthusiasts, strategy gamers, and educational modders.
Core Feature "Labor Density" Modeling: Buildings and tasks have accurate time/resource costs based on historical data (e.g., drop spindles take 10 hours/day per person).
Tech Stack A generic C++ library usable by various game engines, or a dedicated Unity/Godot project.
Difficulty High
Monetization Hobby: Open source (GitHub) with potential for crowdfunding specific historical era packs (e.g., "Roman Logistics" or "Medieval Household" modules).

Notes

  • [Inspired by the detailed breakdowns in the thread, specifically bluGill's notes on spinning labor and eapressoandcats's comment that "70% of producing clothes is spinning."]
  • [High utility for educational purposes. HN loves open-source tools that empower community creation and correct historical misconceptions (e.g., the "earthy brown clothing" myth).]

Architectural Constraints: Medieval Road & Zoning Planner

Summary

  • [A standalone planning tool or game mode focused on the organic growth of medieval settlements. Unlike modern city builders with grids, this tool forces users to plan around topography, existing land ownership (forests owned by nobles), and the lack of "planned" layouts, as mentioned by thechao regarding construction limits.]
  • [Core value proposition: Solves the "fake medieval town" visual problem by providing a constrained sandbox. Users attempt to grow a settlement from a nucleus, dealing with the inability to wall everything and the need for local resources, contrasting with the "Attack on Titan" style massive walls described in the discussion.]

Details

Key Value
Target Audience Urban planning enthusiasts, indie game developers, and history buffs interested in settlement evolution.
Core Feature "Organic Growth" Algorithm: Roads and buildings cannot be pre-planned grid-style; they must evolve from a central point based on resource availability and terrain.
Tech Stack Web-based (Three.js/React) for visualization, or a lightweight desktop app (Electron/Canvas).
Difficulty Low
Monetization Hobby: Free web tool, with potential for "Pro" features (exporting to game engines) for small fee.

Notes

  • [References Cthulhu_'s observation on "Attack on Titan" wall mathematics and OscarCunningham's math on enclosure efficiency.]
  • [Provides a practical utility for game designers to visualize "realistic" growth vs. the "unformed grassland" complaint raised by eapressoandcats.]

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